This game is fatally flawed and here's why... - FMFormation.net - Football Manager

humfs · 14-12-07, 02:55 AM

This game is fatally flawed, and here’s why…

Let me start off by saying every team in the game is given a ‘reputation’ rating ranging from 0 to 10,000 and this rating plays a particular significance within the game, it effects the odds of you winning any said match quite considerably. I’ll explain this further. Take Man United for example, their ‘reputation’ rating is somewhere around 9250 whereas most non-league teams have a reputation rating of less than 1,000, this instantly stacks the odds of you beating them heavily against you. Man United could field a team of complete nobodies, useless players, and still beat your non-league team even if you had players in your side who were comparable with the great Brazilian World Cup winning team of 1970. Your Brilliant side might totally dominate the highlights section and have numerous attempts on goal, but these attempts would all miss, be saved, hit the bar, score but be dis-allowed and Man United would still win the game by 2 or 3 clear goals no matter what tactics or formation you play, it’s the reputation factor that wins the game.

Does the ‘reputation’ rating change for your club if you’re successful and manage to get promoted? The answer is no I don’t think so, realistically a non-league club are going to struggle in this game to get much higher than the Coca Cola League 2, simply because their reputation will stay at roughly 1,000 and they’ll be playing teams every week who have a ‘reputation’ rating which is usually at least twice as high as theirs, sure you’ll win some matches, but it’ll be a dog fight to avoid relegation every season, that team has reached it’s limit and you need to move on to a team with a higher reputation if you want to have a fruitful career in FM2008.

I don’t know if I’ve explained this very well but to sum things up, if you want to have a good chance of winning anything in FM2008 then you need to be the manager of a team that has a reputation rating of at least 7,000 and that would be a team like Tottenham or Everton in the Premiership. When the ‘reputation’ ratings between two teams are a lot closer then it becomes more interesting, if you have a good squad of players and use the right team, tactics and formation, then the team with a lower ‘reputation’ can win, as the ‘reputation’ factor becomes a lot less significant. This is why the worst teams in the Premiership, with a reputation rating of around 6,000 would be able to ‘just’ beat Man United if everything was in their favour and the right formations and tactics were used.

Even Cheating and giving yourself a bottomless pit of cash won’t help you to over come the big boys, in this game ‘Reputation’ is everything. Does anyone remember Wimbledon in the 1980’s, they went from non-league football to Division 1 football in consecutive seasons, it happened!! Could it happen in this game? There’s more chance of hell freezing over..lol..

shadowbrewster · 14-12-07, 03:49 AM

well i havnt even read all of it and dont even need to continue readin as i completly disagree as i have been one of the people to take a team in confrence to champions league glory and yes reputation does play a big factor as it does in real life and u will find the teams reputation is based on the reputation of the players in that team so u have big names u have a high reputation team etc
my 2 cents

humfs · 14-12-07, 05:06 AM

I find it very hard to believe that anyone has taken a conference club to the Premiership and won the Champions League without cheating in one way or another. You stated that a clubs reputation is based on the players it has available, in other words to get a world class reputation you need world class stars, the likes of Kaka or Ronaldinho amongst others. The question I have to ask myself here is how in a million years can you build up a club that has very low training facilities, virtually no cash available, and a very poor ground with a capacity of about 5,000 maximum, into an all conquering footballing super power, that is even capable of attracting these players. You can claim that it’s all done through coaching and training, but you know as well as I do that once a player has reached his potential then he can’t progress any further, and you simply cannot turn the average Sunday league footballer into the next Maradonna, you have to at some point, buy quality players and Conference clubs just don’t have the means to do this. I’m not calling you a cheat but there’s something very dodgy about a Conference Club winning the Champions league, I suppose it could be done if money was no object though.

humfs · 14-12-07, 05:22 AM

In fact I can prove my theory, simply go to the games data editor, pick any club from the conference and change its reputation from 1000 to something like 9500 then save the database and play the game. You might not become a superb side over night but you’ll be guaranteed a ticket to the Premiership in the shortest possible time, won’t need to buy many players as the club ‘Reputation’ factor will kick in, meaning you win most games until you reach Championship Division as just about every club you play will have a ‘Reputation’ far lower than yourself, even though the players are of a similar standard at all the clubs. The only problem games you’ll have are the cup games when you face a team from the Championship or Premiership whose ‘Reputation’ is similar to yours.

shadowbrewster · 14-12-07, 05:37 AM

hmm no i mean yes by the time i had won champions league i was in season 2019 but that aint the point from wot im readin your just takin a rant over how bad u are at this game
and who said anythin about buying kaka or ronaldinho im talkin about youngsters who will come to a confrence side that potential will let them get to premiership standerd as their are quite a few out their if u go looking and if u look around the forums their are plenty of people who have done the same as i and even got screenshots to prove it

humfs · 14-12-07, 02:52 PM

I’m afraid I’m gonna remain very sceptical about your claims that you achieved all this by fair means. There may well be a few youngsters in the game who have a lot of potential, but I doubt if there’s enough to turn a conference side into European Champions and here’s why. Youngsters with a lot of potential will stay with a small club for a certain amount of time and then they will move on if they have any ambitions, there’s not a lot you can do to prevent this happening and you find yourself in a vicious circle of finding these youngsters, getting them to a certain standard and then loosing them to a bigger club. I am a comparative newbie to this game but am not doing too badly in my opinion, I’ve taken Barrow, one of the worst Blue Square North teams into the Coca Cola League 2 in just 6 seasons, but I feel this is as far as they can go, it’s like I say their reputation in that league is so much lower than every other club that they’re always about 10/1 against winning any game, and struggle in the bottom half of the table every season. I find this quite ridiculous as I’ve compared my squad to every other squad in Coca Cola Division 2 and my squad is much better in every department, the coaching reports for all my players are something like ‘would be a good player for any Coca Cola Division 1 Team’ or even ‘a good player for a Championship Team’ so how is it that they struggle so badly in Coca Cola Division 2 when they’re such good players. It’s the reputation of the club that’s losing the matches, not the players, if the club had a good reputation then they would get to the Championship or Premiership without a problem, of that I’m sure. You say you have screenshots to prove that it can be done, taking a conference side to the Premiership, but screenshots prove very little. Yes they’ll show a Conference team in the Premiership, but what they won’t show is how it was achieved. Anyway, I’ve had my say on this matter now, it was never meant to be a long rant as you called it, I merely wanted to point out why I feel the odds are stacked against the ‘very small club’ becoming great in this game.

INeedBeer · 14-12-07, 03:30 PM

Sory mate but i think your talkin bull, when you say you cn prove it does this mean youve actually done it?, cos if you ant done it you cant prove it

Have you ever thought of the fact that you buy players for next to nothing when there young , train them and sell them for a huge profit this is one of the many ways of making a team with a low reputation a top team i no this because ive done it

For example, on FM07 i managed to win the prem in 4 season's with HULL, now please don't bother to tell me i cheated either

are you by any chance a CM fan i wouldn't be suprised

humfs · 14-12-07, 03:47 PM

Since when were Hull a Non-league team? I’m not knocking the game in general cos I do like it and will be persevering with Barrow for a little while yet. I’m just giving some constructive criticism of the game, something which could be rectified by the developers to make the game even more enjoyable. I like a challenge in a game but feel the challenge I want is being unfairly impeded. If you want I’ll start a new game with Barrow and play one season with their reputation set to 9500 and then post a screen shot here of the final table, maybe then my point will be proved. I wont buy a single player but I bet I win the league by a mile, it will probably be won by early January as I’ll win every game comfortably with a massive ‘Reputation’ rating.

FM_Scotland · 14-12-07, 04:33 PM

Ive heard of loads of team's coming from confernce north/south in previous games. Havnt seen anything in 08 yet though.

walkinshaw · 14-12-07, 04:41 PM

i know of oen that can be done lol...... FMF United

FM_Scotland · 17-12-07, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humfs

I’ll start a new game with Barrow and play one season with their reputation set to 9500 and then post a screen shot here of the final table, maybe then my point will be proved. I wont buy a single player but I bet I win the league by a mile, it will probably be won by early January as I’ll win every game comfortably with a massive ‘Reputation’ rating.

Have you done it yet?, im curious to know if this is true.

apthered · 17-12-07, 09:01 PM

im sure many people can take a non-leageu or league 2 team into the premiership, i know for sure that walkinshaw took perterborugh to the championship and so is liveru, i myself am taking accrignton to the prem, i was predicted 23rd in league 2, and in my second season im 9th, but 3 points off a playoff spot in february
the reputation might be a decider, but it isnt the only decider, reputation gets higher and lower, same as most other attributes within the game

humfs · 19-12-07, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Have you done it yet?, im curious to know if this is true.

Well, I've started a season, with Barrow, but set their reputation to 7000, I didn't even bother going to 9500. If you click on the link below, you will find that was I say is true. After just 24 games the league is all but over, I've won every game comfortably and nobody has a snow balls chance in hell of catching me ..lol

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6467/barrowud9.png

humfs · 19-12-07, 01:25 AM

The only downside to the season so far is a 4 v 0 defeat against Aston Villa,at Villa Park, in the 4th round of the F.A. Cup. With the reputations of both clubs being similar then it had no effect on this match, and Villas vastly superior players won the match very easily.

FM_Scotland · 19-12-07, 04:17 PM

I suppose you have proved your point, but like apthered said your rep goes up the higher the division you are in right?

humfs · 19-12-07, 05:24 PM

Quote:

I suppose you have proved your point, but like apthered said your rep goes up the higher the division you are in right?

I'm not altogether sure about this...I've played another game before where I was the manager of Barrow. I got promoted from the Blue Square North to Coca Cola Division 2 within about 6 seasons but my reputation didn't improve, I was rank outsiders to win any match in that division and struggled in the bottom half of the table.

shadowbrewster · 21-12-07, 12:07 AM

right ya proved ya point but ya reputation will improve dont think it will straight away u think man utd got their reputation over night no it was done over a long time as it would be in real life over wise any team that had a lucky 1 of win of that league would have max reputation but even if reputation is a big factor it still doesnt fully affect the outcome as ya still have to have players that are atleast average for that league

apthered · 21-12-07, 12:27 AM

i can prove that reputation goes up with this:
accrington stanley reputation at start of game: 2500
reputation in march 2009 (after winning league 2): 3032

shadowbrewster · 21-12-07, 02:59 AM

well there ya go accrington have had a increase in reputation so its possible to take a lower league team to champions league glory aslong as u have decent enough players to keep up with the reputation

targetthyself · 21-12-07, 06:49 AM

humfs- well done, its this sort of theorizing, and experimentation that's going to allow us to understand the game and its strength and flaws separate of reality. I think shadowbrewster needs to settle down. We all get it your really good at FM.